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Kirjoittaja Aihe: [asp] Rgvedan luomishymni - osa 1  (Luettu 5580 kertaa)
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« : 18.05.2015 12:11:11 »

(keskeneräinen...)

Aspergerointia...

Johdanto

[ R = vokaalinen r-äänne; äännetään nykyään yleisesti 'ri';  c = tsh ]

Rgvedaa [rigveeda] voisi ehkä hyvin omintunnoin kutsua hindujen "Wanhaksi Testamentiksi".

Sana 'Rgveda' lienee tatpuruSa-tyyppinen yhdyssana, muodostuen se sanoista 'Rk' (lemma eli sanakirjamuoto: rc [1]) ja 'veda [2]'.

Rgveda koostuu 10:stä maNDalasta [3] jotka puolestaan jakautuvat suukta'ihin [4] eli hymneihin.
Hymnejä on Wikin mukaan 1028 tai silleen, laitoksesta hieman kai riippuen.

1. Rc   2 %{k} f. praise , verse , esp. a sacred verse recited in praise of a deity (in contradistinction to the Sa1man [pl. Sa1ma1ni] or verses which were sung and to the Yajus [pl. Yaju1n6shi] or sacrificial words , formularies , and verses which were muttered) ;

2.    veda   1 m. (fr. 1. %{vid} q.v.) knowledge , true or sacred knowledge or lore , knowledge of ritual RV. AitBr. ; N. of certain celebrated works which constitute the basis of the first period of the Hindu1 religion (these works were primarily three , viz. 1. the R2ig-veda , 2. the Yajur-veda [of which there are , however , two divisions see %{taittirIya-saMhitA} , %{vAjasaneyi-saMhitA}] , 3. the Sa1ma-veda [1015,2] ; these three works are sometimes called collectively %{trayI} , `" the triple Vidya1 "' or `" threefold knowledge "' , but the R2ig-veda is really the only original work of the three , and much the most ancient [the oldest of its hymns being assigned by some who rely on certain astronomical calculations to a period between 4000 and 2500 B.C. , before the settlement of the A1ryans in India ; and by others who adopt a different reckoning to a period between 1400 and 1000 B.C. , when the A1ryans had settled down in the Panja1b] ; subsequently a fourth Veda was added , called the Atharva-veda , which was probably not completely accepted till after Manu , as his law-book often speaks of the three Vedas-calling them %{trayam@brahma@sanAtanam} , `" the triple eternal Veda "' , but only once [xi , 33] mentions the revelation made to Atharvan and An3giras , without , however , calling it by the later name of Atharva-veda ; each of the four Vedas has two distinct parts , viz. 1. Mantra , i.e. words of prayer and adoration often addressed either to fire or to some form of the sun or to some form of the air , sky , wind &c. , and praying for health , wealth , long life , cattle , offspring , victory , and even forgiveness of sins , and 2. Bra1hman2a , consisting of Vidhi and Artha-va1da , i. e. directions for the detail of the ceremonies at which the Mantras were to be used and explanations of the legends &c. connected with the Mantras [see %{brAhmaNa} , %{vidhi}] , both these portions being termed %{zruti} , revelation orally communicated by the Deity , and heard but not composed or written down by men [cf. I. W. 24 &c.] , although it is certain that both Mantras and Bra1hman2as were compositions spread over a considerable period , much of the latter being comparatively modern ; as the Vedas are properly three , so the Mantras are properly of three forms , 1. R2ic , which are verses of praise in metre , and intended for loud recitation ; 2. Yajus , which are in prose , and intended for recitation in a lower tone at sacrifices ; 3. Sa1man , which are in metre , and intended for chanting at the Soma or Moon-plant ceremonies , the Mantras of the fourth or Atharva-veda having no special name ; but it must be borne in mind that the Yajur and Sa1ma-veda hymns , especially the latter , besides their own Mantras , borrow largely from the R2ig-veda ; the Yajur-veda and Sa1ma-veda being in fact not so much collections of prayers and hymns as special prayer- and hymn-books intended as manuals for the Adhvaryu and Udga1tr2i priests respectively [see %{yajur-veda} , %{sAma-veda}] ; the Atharva-veda , on the other hand , is , like the R2ig-veda , a real collection of original hymns mixed up with incantations , borrowing little from the R2ig and having no direct relation to sacrifices , but supposed by mere recitation to produce long life , to cure diseases , to effect the ruin of enemies &c. ; each of the four Vedas seems to have passed through numerous S3a1kha1s or schools , giving rise to various recensions of the text , though the R2ig-veda is only preserved in the S3a1kala recension , while a second recension , that of the Bha1shkalas , is only known by name ; a tradition makes Vya1sa the compiler and arranger of the Vedas in their present form: they each have an Index or Anukraman2i1 [q.v.] , the principal work of this kind being the general Index or Sarva7nukraman2i1 [q.v.] ; out of the Bra1hman2a portion of the Veda grew two other departments of Vedic literature , sometimes included under the general name Veda , viz. the strings of aphoristic rules , called Su1tras [q.v.] , and the mystical treatises on the nature of God and the relation of soul and matter , called Upanishad [q.v.] , which were appended to the A1ran2yakas [q.v.] , and became the real Veda of thinking Hindu1s , leading to the Dars3anas or systems of philosophy ; in the later literature the name of `" fifth Veda "' is accorded to the Itiha1sas or legendary epic poems and to the Pura1n2as , and certain secondary Vedas or Upa-vedas [q.v.] are enumerated ; the Veda7n3gas or works serving as limbs [for preserving the integrity] of the Veda are explained under %{vedA7Gga} below: the only other works included under the head of Veda being the Paris3isht2as , which supply rules for the ritual omitted in the Su1tras ; in the Br2ihad-a1ran2yaka Upanishad the Vedas are represented as the breathings of Brahma1 , while in some of the Pura1n2as the four Vedas are said to have issued out of the four mouths of the four-faced Brahma1 and in the Vishn2u-Pura1n2a the Veda and Vishn2u are identified) RTL. 7 &c. IW. 5 ; 24 &c. ; N. of the number `" four "' VarBr2S. [1015,3] Srutabh. ; feeling , perception S3Br. ; = %{vRtta} (v.l. %{vitta}) L. (cf. 2. %{veda}).

3. maNDala   a. round, circular. -- n. disk, circle, ring; district, territory, country (also f. {I}); assemblage, collection, totality, multitude, group, company, band (also m. & f. {I}); circular array of an army (also m.); the circle of a king's neighbours, a cert. division of the Rigveda.

4. sUkta   a. well spoken [su-ukta -- sidis] or recited; n. good recitation (also {sU3kta}), Vedic hymn.




« Viimeksi muokattu: 18.05.2015 12:29:23 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #1 : 18.05.2015 12:38:06 »

Rgveda koostuu 10:stä maNDalasta [3] jotka puolestaan jakautuvat suukta'ihin [4] eli hymneihin.
Hymnejä on Wikin mukaan 1028 tai silleen, laitoksesta hieman kai riippuen.

Kullakin hymnillä on oma RSi [1] (rishi) eli Näkijä, devataa [2] (deevataa) eli jumaluus ja chandas [3] (tsh-handas) eli
runomitta.

1. RSi   m. (2. %{RS} Comm. on Un2. iv , 119 ; %{RSati@jJAnena@saMsAra-pAram} T. ; perhaps fr. an obsolete %{RS} for %{dRz} , `" to see ? "' cf. %{RSi-kRt}) , a singer of sacred hymns , an inspired poet or sage , any person who alone or with others invokes the deities in rhythmical speech or song of a sacred character (e.g. the ancient hymn-singers Kutsa , Atri , Rebha , Agastya , Kus3ika , Vasisht2ha , Vy-as3va) RV. AV. VS. &c. ; the R2ishis were regarded by later generations as patriarchal sages or saints , occupying the same position in India history as the heroes and patriarchs of other countries , and constitute a peculiar class of beings in the early mythical system , as distinct from gods , men , Asuras , &c. AV. x , 10 , 26 S3Br. AitBr. Ka1tySr. Mn. &c. ; they are the authors or rather seers of the Vedic hymns i.e. according to orthodox Hindu1 ideas they are the inspired personages to whom these hymns were revealed , and such an expression as `" the R2ishi says "' is equivalent to `" so it stands in the sacred text "' [227,1] ; seven R2ishis , %{sapta@RSayaH} , or %{saptaRSayaH} or %{saptarSayaH} , are often mentioned in the Bra1hman2as and later works as typical representatives of the character and spirit of the pre-historic or mythical period ; in S3Br. xiv , 5 , 2 , 6 their names are given as follows , Gotama , Bharadva1ja , Vis3va1-mitra , Jamadagni , Vasisht2ha , Kas3yapa , and Atri ; in MBh. xii , Mari1ci , Atri , An3giras , Pulaha , Kratu , Pulastya , Vasisht2ha are given as the names of the R2ishis of the first Manvantara , and they are also called Praja1patis or patriarchs ; the names of the R2ishis of the subsequent Manv-antaras are enumerated in Hariv. 417 ff. ; afterwards three other names are added , viz. Pracetas or Daksha , Bhr2igu , and Na1rada , these ten being created by Manu Sva1yambhuva for the production of all other beings including gods and men A1s3vS3r. MBh. VP. &c. ; in astron. the seven R2ishis form the constellation of `" the Great Bear RV. x , 82 , 2 AV. vi , 40 , 1 S3Br. A1s3vGr2. MBh. &c. ; (metaphorically the seven R2ishis may stand for the seven senses or the seven vital airs of the body VS. xxxiv S3Br. xiv Ka1tyS3r.) ; a saint or sanctified sage in general , an ascetic , anchorite (this is a later sense ; sometimes three orders of these are enumerated , viz. Devarshis , Brahmarshis , and Ra1jarshis ; sometimes seven , four others being added , viz. Maharshis , Paramarshis , S3rutarshis , and Ka1n2darshis) Mn. iv , 94 ; xi , 236 S3ak. Ragh. &c. ; the seventh of the eight degrees of Bra1hmans Hcat. ; a hymn or Mantra composed by a R2ishi ; the Veda Comm. on MBh. and Pat. ; a symbolical expression for the number seven ; the moon ; an imaginary circle ; a ray of light L. ; the fish Cyprinus Rishi L. ; [cf. Hib. {arsan} , `" a sage , a man old in wisdom "' ; %{arrach} , `" old , ancient ,

2. devatA   f. godhead , divinity (abstr. & concr.) RV. AV. Br. &c. ; image of a deity , idol Mn. iv , 130 MBh. Pur. (ifc. %{-ka} Kull. viii , 105) ; N. of the organs of sense (cf. %{deva}) S3Br. ii , 5 , 2 , 2 &c. ; (%{A}) ind. with divinity i.e. with a god (gods) or among the gods RV. AV.

3. chandas   2 n. desire , longing for , will MBh. xii , 7376 Pa1n2. 4-4 , 93 Ka1s3. ; intention , purport W. ; a sacred hymn (of AV. ; as distinguished from those of RV. SV. and YajurV.) , incantation-hymn RV. x AV. S3Br. viii MBh. v , 1224 Ragh. i , 11 ; the sacred text of the Vedic hymns S3Br. xi , 5 , 7 , 3 A1s3vGr2. Kaus3. Gobh. VPra1t. Pa1n2. Mn. &c. ; metre (in general , supposed to consist of 3 or 7 typical forms [AV. VS. &c.] to which Vira1j is added as the 8th [S3Br. viii , 3 , 3 , 6] ; %{cha4ndas} opposed to %{gAyatri4} and %{triSTu4bh} RV. x , 14 , 16) ; metrical science Mun2d2Up. i , 1 , 5 MBh. i , 2887 Pan5cat. S3rut. ; = %{-do-grantha} Nya1yam. ix , 2 , 6 Sch. ; [cf. Lat. {scando} , `" to step , scan. "']
3


 
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« Vastaus #2 : 18.05.2015 12:43:07 »

Rgvedan ns. Luomishymni on viimeisen [  Shocked  ] eli 10. maNDalan suukta 129.

Kuten hepreankielisen Wanhan Testamentin tapauksessa, myös monilla (kaikilla??)
Rgvedan hymneillä on oma "lempinimensä" joka useimmiten koostunee muutamasta
ekasta hymnin sanasta. Luomishymniä kutsuttaneen nimellä naasadiiya-suukta,
joka lienee eräänlainen oppitekoinen adjektiivi kahdesta ekasta sanasta naasad...[na + asad...]

Koko hymni muinais-intiaksi ("wanhaksi sanskritiksi") männöö näinikkäästi (tuo on "hieman"
vaikealukuinen aksenttimerkkien takii):

nAsa\'dAsI\`nno sadA\'sItta\`dAnI\`M nAsI\`drajo\` no vyo\'mA pa\`ro yat |
kimAva\'rIva\`H kuha\` kasya\` sharma\`nnambha\`H kimA\'sI\`dgaha\'naM gabhI\`ram || 10\.129\.01
na mR^i\`tyurA\'sIda\`mR^ita\`M na tarhi\` na rAtryA\` ahna\' AsItprake\`taH |
AnI\'davA\`taM sva\`dhayA\` tadeka\`M tasmA\'ddhA\`nyanna pa\`raH kiM cha\`nAsa\' || 10\.129\.02
tama\' AsI\`ttama\'sA gU\`Lhamagre\'.aprake\`taM sa\'li\`laM sarva\'mA i\`dam |
tu\`chChyenA\`bhvapi\'hita\`M yadAsI\`ttapa\'sa\`stanma\'hi\`nAjA\'ya\`taika\'m || 10\.129\.03
kAma\`stadagre\` sama\'varta\`tAdhi\` mana\'so\` reta\'H pratha\`maM yadAsI\'t |
sa\`to bandhu\`masa\'ti\` nira\'vindanhR^i\`di pra\`tIShyA\' ka\`vayo\' manI\`ShA || 10\.129\.04
ti\`ra\`shchIno\` vita\'to ra\`shmire\'ShAma\`dhaH svi\'dA\`sI3du\`pari\' svidAsI3t |
re\`to\`dhA A\'sanmahi\`mAna\' Asansva\`dhA a\`vastA\`tpraya\'tiH pa\`rastA\'t || 10\.129\.05
ko a\`ddhA ve\'da\` ka i\`ha pra vo\'cha\`tkuta\` AjA\'tA\` kuta\' i\`yaM visR^i\'ShTiH |
a\`rvAgde\`vA a\`sya vi\`sarja\'ne\`nAthA\` ko ve\'da\` yata\' Aba\`bhUva\' || 10\.129\.06
i\`yaM visR^i\'ShTi\`ryata\' Aba\`bhUva\` yadi\' vA da\`dhe yadi\' vA\` na |
yo a\`syAdhya\'kShaH para\`me vyo\'ma\`nso a\`~Nga ve\'da\` yadi\' vA\` na veda\' || 10\.129\.07

Sama ilman aksenttimerkkejä, "suomalaisittain":

naasadaasiinno sadaasiittadaaniiM naasiidrajo no vyomaa paro yat |
kimaavariivaH kuha kasya sharmannambhaH kimaasiidgahanaM gabhiiram || 10.129.01
na mR^ityuraasiidamR^itaM na tarhi na raatryaa ahna aasiitpraketaH |
aaniidavaataM svadhayaa tadekaM tasmaaddhaanyanna paraH kiM chanaasa || 10.129.02
tama aasiittamasaa gULhamagre.apraketaM salilaM sarvamaa idam |
tuchChyenaabhvapihitaM yadaasiittapasastanmahinaajaayataikam || 10.129.03
kaamastadagre samavartataadhi manaso retaH prathamaM yadaasiit |
sato bandhumasati niravindanhR^idi pratiiSyaa kavayo maniiSaa || 10.129.04
tirashchiino vitato rashmireSaamadhaH svidaasii3dupari svidaasii3t |
retodhaa aasanmahimaana aasansvadhaa avastaatprayatiH parastaat || 10.129.05
ko addhaa veda ka iha pra vochatkuta aajaataa kuta iyaM visR^iSTiH |
arvaagdevaa asya visarjanenaathaa ko veda yata aababhUva || 10.129.06
iyaM visR^iSTiryata aababhUva yadi vaa dadhe yadi vaa na |
yo asyaadhyakSaH parame vyomanso a~Nga veda yadi vaa na veda || 10.129.07


« Viimeksi muokattu: 18.05.2015 13:00:28 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #3 : 18.05.2015 13:53:32 »

Muutama sananen sandhista, selittämään sitä, miksi sanat erittelevä teksti (pada-paaTha)
poikkeaa useasti melko lailla sanat yhteen lukemalla esitetystä tekstistä (samhita-paaTha).

Lingvistiikassa (ulkoisella) sandhilla tarkoitettaneen useimmiten kahden vierekkäisen
sanan toisiinsa aiheuttamia foneettisia muutoksia. Sanskritissa (ja muinais-intiassa)
konsonanttien (ulkoinen) sandhi taitaa useimmiten olla seuraavan sanan alkukonsonantin tahi -vokaalin aiheuttama
foneettinen muutos edellisen sanan viimeisessä konsonantissa.

Jos esim. sanan viimeinen konsonantti on soinniton eli äänihuulet eivät sitä äännettäessä
värähtele (vaikkapa konsonantti t), ja seuraava sana alkaa joko vokaalilla tahi soinnillisella konsonantilla, tuo t-äänne muuttuu useimmiten vastaavaksi soinnilliseksi äänteeksi d.

Esim. käsittelemämme suuktan ekat sanat ilman sandhia ovat na + asat + aasiit, kontekstissa
ne ääntyvät naasad aasiit (mukana myös vokaalisandhin yksinkertaisin tapaus: kaksi peräkkäistä
lyhyttä a-äännettä [na + asat ] äännetään yhtenä pitkänä a-äänteenä [naasat]). Kuitenkin, kun sanaa
aasiit seuraa konsonantti n, sen viimeinen konsonantti t muuttuu n-konsonantiksi:

na + asat + aasiit + na + u.... -> naasad aasiin no ...  (a + u -> o; lausu pitkänä: oo).

Sanskritissa ja muinais-intiassa sandhi on osin niin kimuranttia, että se lannistanee monet
innokkaatkin aloittelijat...

Sandhi on toki erittäin luonnollinen ilmiö, jonka tarkoituksena on tehdä puheesta sun muusta
mahdollisimman sujuvaa. Hyvä esimerkki sandhista suomen kielessä on pohjois-hämäläinen
murteellinen ilmaus nysse tulee yleiskielen vastaavan nyt se [onnikka] tulee asemesta. Tuossa
ilmauksessa nyt-sanan viimeinen äänne on muuttunut seuraavan sanan se alkukonsonantin
kaltaiseksi, jolloin ääntämys vaatii tavallaan vähemmän energijaa...
Toinen mainiohko esimerkki: sen + la(j)inen -> sellainen.

 :Smiley
« Viimeksi muokattu: 18.05.2015 14:11:12 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #4 : 18.05.2015 23:21:21 »

Tarkastelkaamme lähemmin ensimmäistä värssyä. Sen saMhita-paaTha menee siis tälleen:

naasadaasiinno sadaasiittadaaniiM naasiidrajo no vyomaa paro yat |
kimaavariivaH kuha kasya sharmannambhaH kimaasiidgahanaM gabhiiram || 10.129.01

pada-paaTha eli sanat toisistaan "irrallaan" esittävä lukutapa voisi olla vaikkapa seuraavanlainen:

na + asat; aasiit na + u sat aasiit tadaaniim;  na + aasiit; rajaH; na + u vi 'oma paraH; yat |
kim aa+ avariivaH? kuha? kasya sharman? ambhaH; kim aasiit; gahanam; gabhiiram? || 10.129.01

Macdonell'in käännös:

There was not the non-existent nor the existent then; there was not the air nor the
heaven which is beyond. What did it contain? Where? In whose protection? Was there
water, unfathomable, profound?
« Viimeksi muokattu: 18.05.2015 23:23:30 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #5 : 19.05.2015 10:59:04 »

Värssy 2:

saMhita-paaTha

na mRtyuraasiidamRtaM na tarhi na raatryaa ahna aasiitpraketaH |
aaniidavaataM svadhayaa tadekaM tasmaaddhaanyanna paraH kiM canaasa || 10.129.02

pada-paaTha:

na mRtyuH; aasiit; amRtam; na tarhi na raatryaaH; ahnaH; aasiit praketaH |
aaniit; avaatam; svadhayaa tat; ekam; tasmaat; ha + anyat; na paraH kim; cana + aasa || 10.129.02

There was not death nor immortality then. There was not the beacon of night, nor of day.
That one breathed, windless, by its own power. Other than that there was not anything
beyond.
« Viimeksi muokattu: 19.05.2015 11:08:16 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #6 : 19.05.2015 12:32:33 »

Värssy 3 (/7)

tama aasiittamasaa gULhamagre apraketaM salilaM sarvam aa idam |
tuchyenaabhvapihitaM yadaasiittapasastanmahinaajaayataikam || 10.129.03

tamaH; aasiit tamasaa guuLham agre.apraketam; salilam; sarvam; aaH; idam |
tuchyena + aabhu + apihitam; yat; aasiit tapasaH; tat; mahinaa + ajaayata + ekam || 10.129.03

Darkness was in the beginning hidden by darkness*; indistinguishable,
this all was water (salilam; tavallisimmat vettä merkitsevät sanat
ovat jala ja ap). That which, coming into being, was covered with
the void, that One arose through the power of heat.

* Olikos "universumi" ennen Big Bangiä vähän kuin absoluuttinen Musta Aukko?
« Viimeksi muokattu: 19.05.2015 19:46:14 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #7 : 19.05.2015 19:50:36 »

Värssy 4

kaamastadagre samavartataadhi manaso retaH prathamaM yadaasiit |
sato bandhumasati niravindanhRdi pratiiSyaa kavayo maniiSaa || 10.129.04

[Hermostuksissani värittelen, kun odotan Euroviisuäänestyksen alkamista...LOL! ]

kaamaH; tat; agre sam_avartata + adhi
 manasaH; retaH prathamam; yat; aasiit |
sataH bandhum asati niH; avindan
 hRdi prati_iSya kavayaH; maniiSaa || 10.129.04

Desire in the beginning came upon that,
(desire) that was the first seed of mind.
Sages seeking in their hearts with wisdom
found out the bond of the existent
in the non-existent.
« Viimeksi muokattu: 19.05.2015 23:25:17 kirjoittanut sideman » tallennettu
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« Vastaus #8 : 20.05.2015 15:15:56 »


Tässä "paras" video aiheen tiimoilta?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zA8Rz4s90

Pari huomautusta: translitteraatiossa on pikku vihreitä;
väliin tuntuu, että paNDiitit eivät välttämättä ymmärrä
tekstin tarkkaa semanttista merkitystä, koska muutama hyvin oudolta
kuulostava sana (tekstiin verrattuna) mahtuu mukaan...

 coolsmiley
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